What have been your experiences of the Church?
What have been your joys, hopes and disappointments?
When have you felt connected? When have you felt disconnected?

Experiences of connectedness during mass include: when Sacraments are celebrated during Sunday mass; celebrating "in the round," where everyone can see each other; universality of the mass- even with differing languages that we are doing and saying the same things, the same rituals; community creates communal support.

Joys: asking new friends from church to pray for us about specific needs, and praying for church friends for their needs; inspirational homilies as opposed to "preaching" homilies.

Disappointments: announcements for people to not receive Eucharist unless they are in a state of (good) grace with the Roman Catholic Church, and if they are not Catholic. (NOTE: this has not happened at St. Vincent's, but we still do not like this practice.)

Joys/Hopes/Connected

1. The strongest joys/hopes and connections centered around the local church. Participants generally felt community and welcome in most of those places during their lives especially here at St. Vincent’s.
2. One participant mentioned feeling very connected because the homilies often dealt with the issues of the times and brought in Catholic social teaching to that end.
3. One participant commented that the Catholic Church as an institution has done a lot for the poor in its outreach.

Disappointments/Lack of Connection

• When pastors preached a message that did not connect with their understanding of the faith;
• A participant who had been single did not always feel welcome in a church community centered on the needs of families.
• One participant as a child remembered that his mother was not welcome in the community after her divorce leading her ultimately to leave the Church.

• The failure of the Church to fully use the gifts of women in the deacon and the priesthood was a source of great discontent;
• A sadness about young people who are not connected to the Church who deem themselves as spiritual but not religious and finding the Church’s institutional structure as not relevant to their lives.
• Locally, concerns were expressed by the lack of pastoral concern and compassion in handling the loss of pensions for former employees of St. Clare’s Hospital.
• Several concerns centered around current and past actions of the U.S. Bishops:
  • The horror of the clergy sexual abuse crisis especially with the cover up and the lack of accountability.
  • Their lobbying against LGBTQ concerns;
  • Their overemphasis on abortion as seemingly the only pro-life issue
  • The recent denial of the San Francisco Bishop of Communion to Nancy Pelosi
  • Their recent closure of the Catholic News Service wanted to ensure that their message comes out directly through USCCB auspices.

• Experiences of Church

• All church is local: where you are; each parish has its own customs
• Group Member 1: Converted to Catholicism
  • Had many questions and had a good experience here
  • As life-long searcher, had looked at lots of churches
  • Prayed to St. Jude and prayer was answered but avoided the Catholic church on her mother’s advice
  • Loved St. Vincent’s as soon as she walked in the door; she felt welcome; experienced compassion and acceptance in a time of crisis
  • This parish is the way church should be.
• Group member 2: Grew up in another parish and went to a private, non-religious school; was scolded by nuns for being late for religious education class – threatened that she would be thrown out the window if she was late again. Mother stood up for her.
  • Nonetheless, she found her self serving in ministry
  • Knew a woman who was divorced because her husband had been an adulterer; she was publicly shamed form the pulpit and was cast out of the church
  • Speaker was fired for reporting pedophilic behavior of priest
  • These experiences were hard but the good outweighed the bad
  • Critical / skeptical of the structure and clerical aspects
  • Came to St. Vincent’s but it took a while to feel she belonged
  • Could not, in conscience participate in the Reigniting Our Faith Capital Campaign, made a donation to the church building maintenance fund
  • Appalled at the pension failure for St. Clare’s Hospital employees.
• Group Member 3: Grew up in Buffalo; attended Catholic schools, taught by Franciscan nuns who were kinder than the lay teachers
  • Nuns in high school were liberal and speaker felt comfortable with their positions; introduced social justice teachings which were inspiring
  • Taught by Jesuit priests in college; loved their approach to theology; learned about other religions. They were very accepting
  • Except: her Mom had returned to college at the same school and one priest told speaker that her mother didn’t belong there
  • Speaker taught at various Catholic high schools
  • Many things she doesn’t agree with; sexual abuse by priests is hard to accept
  • Bottom line is to follow her conscience
  • The authoritarian stories would make it hard for her to stay
• Group member 4: Church that is local vs. hierarchy
  • Went to Catholic high school; inspired by teachers wanted to teach high school; faculty were diocesan priests, therefore became a priest
  • Went to the seminary in Baltimore, in an all Black neighborhood: culture shock; faculty and students were involved in the neighborhood life
  • After assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. (1968) the seminarians decided to stay even though there was the possibility of danger; riots broke out
  • Insight: wanted to work for reconciliation, especially in the inner city rather than teach high school
  • Working in inner city churches was good; it was alive, very satisfying
  • Worked in Niskayuna; issues of human suffering were the same but the poor were more honest in revealing their struggles; appreciates parish life where people are honest about their pain
  • Aware of racism and ignorance of the clergy

What have been your experiences of the church?

We experience church as a community, at times an important part of our social circles.

Our greatest connection happens around the celebration of the Eucharist – the times before and after Mass, and other sacraments: RCIA. Baptism, First Communion, these are our times of connection.

Our greatest disappointments lie in the priest scandals and the poor way the Church doesn’t deal with human sexuality. In addition the language of the Church is non-inclusive. Women are made to feel outside the community called church, especially in the area of ordained ministry.

We are also concerned by a turn toward a “conservative” theological/sacramental expression where the superficial is revered (i.e. cassocks and other externals.)

Experiences in the Church

• Grew up in city parish; everyone they knew was Catholic
• Had a tendency towards scrupulosity; went to Confession every week
• Faith was challenged in college by geology teacher who asked, “You don’t believe in God do you?” Speaker decided they didn’t.
• Married, speaker and spouse were raising children the way they had been raised, doing all the church things
• Through Cursillo and Residents Encounter Christ the speaker had an amazing revelation of God’s love and has been fast in faith ever since.
• They have had an administrator for the past year but the name of the former pastor, who was removed for sexual abuse of a minor is still on the bulletin; intercessions during Mass include prayers for him but not for the victims
• During this past year, speaker felt that there wasn’t anything they could offer; didn’t think the current administration wanted them to
• Lost pastoral council, committees, idea of basic Christian communities
• Church has to listen more; Bishops don’t seem to listen
• The speaker asked to be anointed because of an upcoming medical procedure; the administrator never called to ask how they were doing
• Doesn’t find community in the church anymore; knew community under different leadership many years before; was involved in liturgical ministry; liturgies were celebrated well; homilies were challenging
• Left to join a neighboring parish but after a recent merger, the other church is hard to get to
• Likes the contemporary choir and the administrator but there are some legal issues with his immigration status
• There are indications that the Holy Spirit is at work; Pope Francis has initiated challenging endeavors, but the speaker knows there is dissent
• The speaker loves the Auriesville Shrine, walks there every day however, the Extraordinary Form Mass is offered every Sunday, tends to be only one model
• Used to have workshops, get together with people in different ministries
• The secretary would respond right away; speaker knew they were “somebody”; felt welcomed
• People in church are quick to name what is wrong; never go to the underlying causes, e.g. Uvalde and Buffalo were not mentioned in the Prayers of the Faithful
• Feelings changed after surgery; realize how disconnected someone can be
• Speaker’s mom would receive visits, calls, was asked to send get well cards
• How do we connect people?

• Speaker has a diverse experience: baptized and confirmed in the Ukrainian Catholic Church then confirmed again in the RC Church
• Connected with Thich Nat Hanh
• Ordained
• Handicapped and in a wheelchair due to an injured spine; accepts the pain as part of God’s will
• Would like to see more diversity
• Zoom services are helpful

• Happy with Vatican II; disappointed with the way it worked out
  • Didn’t open things up for the laity to get more involved
• Could be more creative in reaching out to the neighborhood
• Rather than stay with ritual, we should throw in a “real” meal or service activity
• Get away from “I believe” to “This is what it means to be a Christian.”
• Invite congregants to write ideas down on readings on index cards
• Dialog homilies

Joys –

• Energy present in the community at prayer; manifestation of the Spirit
• Don’t get to God on one’s own

Disappointments –

• Treatment of LGTBQ people
• Women restricted from ordination
• Men recently ordained seem to have received no pastoral formation
• Church needs to take a hard look at itself and walk the walk
• Like to see example shown by being more welcoming and inclusive
• Action needed – to institutionalize the synod process, especially regarding the selection of bishops

Concerns –

• Been in a lot of churches: quality of homilies is generally poor; do not address the conditions of the world, e.g. the idolatry of guns or consumerism
• Need for a new evangelization; we are living in a pagan culture
• Much of church teaching is based on natural law which doesn’t take into consideration modern science
• Church teaching must be based on reality: theology and scriptures; people should learn what to take literally and not; need to think about how and what is taught
• The Church has a lot of substance to offer
• A lot of the references to God are metaphysical: Jesus is neither lamb nor cornerstone.
• The canonical doctrine of reception: if a teaching is not received it is not valid
• Importance of inclusivity and against racism: seamless garment of life

Early experiences of the Church:

Catholic school, nice nuns who didn’t hit us. Late 1960’s, beginning of Vatican II, so nuns taught us folk music which was sung in our weekly masses. Deeply impacted by the stations of the cross, and Veronica’s encounter with Jesus. Saw my parents’ involvement in Cursillo retreats, and synod meetings of the early 70’s. Dad was very involved as usher, CCD teacher, parish council and eucharistic minister. Moms didn’t take on any of these roles. Assumed that being ushers kept the men from having to sit and pay attention during mass.

Felt disconnected as a teenager: Parish priest uninspiring, spent homily time complaining about how we young people dressed for church. Not much value placed on youth and their involvement in parish life. The absence of women in any roles during liturgy (other than singing in choir, which was behind us, out of sight, in the loft) was painfully apparent. Assumed that meant no place for me in the church other than the pews, or rosary societies. I was not well-suited for a life of unquestioning obedience. Church became irrelevant as a teenager as a result. However, my belief in God never wavered. I felt the presence of God most when playing the piano.

When I felt connected:

Rediscovered the beauty of my faith in college. Felt prodded by protestant friend to better understand my beliefs. Campus parish relied heavily on leadership and involvement of the students, which gave us a sense of agency with our Catholicism. This deepened my connection to my faith. Chose studies in religion for a major – exploration of richness of other faiths helped me to understand/appreciate my own.

Disappointments:

The retrenchment by the institutional church from Vatican II. There is increasing emphasis on strictly male authority, control from the top, and form over Spirit. This stubborn insistence on male priesthood, requests to pray for vocations and for money to pay for men’s seminary training is pure hypocrisy.

I am deeply angered and disappointed in the absolute silencing of discussion of women’s ordination. I consider this silencing to be a form of abuse to the Spirit in all of us.

Growing up in the first decade following Vatican II, I had come to assume that there would be growing freedom and involvement of laity, especially women, not only in liturgy and local parish life, but in the larger institutional church. During recent visits to my childhood parish in Detroit Archdiocese, I was extremely disappointed to hear the parish priest giving anti-gay homilies to 8 th graders attending weekly mass, and in the lack of any real choice in music for my father’s funeral. Music for funeral liturgies was limited to a short list of songs, dictated by the bishop, for all parishes in the archdiocese. I found this extreme level of control from the top to be very disturbing and insulting to the membership.

Joys:

Despite the retrenchment by the institutional church, I can still find a parish home that encourages lay leadership and initiative, provides richness in liturgy and music, nurtures inclusive community, and connects my faith with service of others. This parish life links my experience of the sacraments to the reality of my everyday life and has given me the perspective needed to face my own humanity and mortality. I cannot separate my connection to the sacraments from myself any more than I can sinew from my bones, and thus, as long as I have a parish that can feed my spirit, I remain in the Catholic church.

What might the Church learn from your experiences?
What new dreams and surprising visions for the Church might the holy scripture be inspiring?

We would like to see the Holy Spirit inspire us in the church welcome and allow woman priests, married priests/clergy/lay women (nuns). We want the church to welcome ALL people and openly acknowledge ALL people, such as people in the LBGTQ community, to the point of saying "We welcome you and we love you!" as opposed to adding a caveat such as "We welcome you but we do not agree with your
lifestyle" (aka "Love the sinner, hate the sin.")

We want more priests, and perhaps another response to this would be for lay people to be priests, just as the Bible tells us. We believe the Eucharist is mysterious enough as it is in the Catholic faith. Perhaps we could celebrate the Eucharist together without a Priest being present, and still see this as a valid celebration. For example, isn't it true that when two or more of us are gathered, Jesus is with us? Why can we not then celebrate a valid Eucharist as members of the community?

One speaker brought up and we discussed the beauty of Agape- a post-Vatican II "Prayer for Eucharist" celebration in all its beauty and spirit. Another speaker said (and we agreed with her): "For new things to begin and grow, old things might have to die."

Participants emphasized that the Church needs to focus upon fully using the gifts of both clergy and laity and push Church decision making as much as possible to the local level consistent with the principle in Catholic social teaching of subsidiarity.

This emphasis can be accomplished through several means:

• In our diocese, we need to open up to broaden administrative responsibility for local parishes to include lay people and women. It was noted that the Albany diocese under our current bishop has sought to have an ordained priest have final administrative responsibility for each parish.
• We need to fully involve local parishes in the decision making when transitions are made (e.g., questions surrounding consolidation of churches and who has leadership responsibility over the church -e.g., parish life director or ordained clergy)
• We need to have diversity in our local parishes so that people can choose where they are most comfortable (e.g., Masses for younger people, other communities that are more traditional in their worship).
• We need for local pastoral leadership to first emphasize “belonging” in welcoming people to the community over “behaving” and “believing”. People must first feel comfortable and welcomed. Focusing initially on “believing” is too divisive.
• We need to restore the Vatican II legacy and its spirit.

What might the Church learn from your experiences?

• Focus more on Jesus and less on the structure
• Engage more with the Holy Spirit who dwells within – this is who motivates and strengthens us for service
• Rome needs to stop prancing around in “dresses;” avoid petty rule making; be real about life
• Avoid embarrassing the people of God who keep the church alive
• We need simplification, more openness to diverse people especially with regard to gender identification
• Living among diverse people leads one to understand that this is “normal.”
• Let priests get married
• Let women be priests – why can’t we discuss this?
• Be honest; don’t keep covering up
• Why can’t women be deacons?

What might the Church learn from your experiences?

The Holy spirit is present in those who leave the Church as well as those who stay.

There could be a greater outreach to those who are marginalized. We need to get our of the church and into the neighborhoods.

The hierarchy is detached from the local church. We/it might be better if there was less hierarchical structure and more service.

We are the body of Christ, but we are often seen as “lesser thans.” We are adults and should be treated as equals.

We get little discussion about living a more contemplative life, where our lives of prayer and service rise up from a deeper spiritual life.

• Being at St. Vincent’s is very different because of the way it expresses Christian discipleship
• American Church is different from European church; the Church is America is very divided
• Speaker had little teaching about Vatican II where she grew up; she learned so much as a member of the Congregation of St. Joseph
• Was in one group where very young Moms expressed disappointment that people did not adhere to the catechism
• Recent billboard – “Are you lost?” targets one group; you’ve lost the rest of us
• Every group has youth leaving after Confirmation
• Speaker has known the saving love of God; wants others to know that too
• Speaker is a member of a church formed by Catholics dissenting from Roman Catholic Church teaching: speaker believes that all the desires articulated in this session wish exist e.g. women priests and deacons in this church
• Pentecost is a celebration of freshness and newness.
• Disorder can be a good thing.

What might the Church learn from your experiences?

It is essential, in order to build and maintain a vibrant and faith-filled community of believers, to respect the intelligence and faith of the laity, to provide opportunity for agency and leadership of ALL members, regardless of age, orientation, gender or ability. If we fail to do this, attendance and connection to the church will only continue to decline.

What new dreams and surprising visions for the Church might the holy scripture be inspiring?

Jesus’ openness to ALL persons without judgment as to their transgressions or gender, continues to challenge us today, as we need to welcome all to the table. The resurrection was radical and unexpected, and completely transformed the lives of Jesus’ followers. We have dressed it up and hollowed it out. A renewed reflection on that first encounter with the resurrection, and the transformative power that it can have for our lives and our world, can provide us with the vision and courage to bring love, justice and healing to our wounded world. It was women who first discovered the empty tomb and shared their discovery with others. They were, tragically, then swept aside given the customs of the time. We need to include women in roles of leadership, priesthood and evangelization at all levels of the church.

What actions can you take? What actions should be taken by the parish or diocese?

Let's literally feed people daily. One speaker witnessed this at a church community in Hawaii. Let's feed people daily.

Really listen to the faithful. Really listen to the people. Really listen to each other.

Make our church and diocese a place of celebration and action that we truly would want to evangelize.

We are the Church- we the people- let's really accept people: each other and those we don't yet know.

• Our parish needs to provide workshops to educate people on what was intended to be accomplished by Vatican II.
• Our parish needs to reinforce our welcome and outreach to the community.
• The diocese needs to provide parishes with more input on parish leadership and parish structures.
• In light of the defunding of the Catholic News Service,   the diocese should upgrade the diocesan newspaper to keep us informed of the issues before the church and the bishops' responses, in a timely manner.
• Each parish and diocese need to do a five-year plan on all aspects of diocese/parish development. This will bring many issues to the surface that will need to be addressed and resolved surround the diocese-parish relationship and the roles of the laity and the clergy.

What actions can individuals/parish/diocese take?

• People feel our parish is on the right track
• There are good things about Catholicism: sense of mysticism
• Church prepares us for something bigger
• Art and music in liturgy remind us of mysticism

What actions can you take; should the parish or diocese take?

• We extend our hospitality to all, not just on Sundays but in all aspects of our lives.
• We all could be creative, dynamic welcoming communities.
• By telling our stories we witness our faith experiences.
• The churches need to create an environment that invites participation. The church has a great deal of healing to facilitate.
• Creating listening sessions / liturgies can help us heal and become stronger communities.
• The annulment process is too legalized and insensitive to those who are trying to heal. There are times when this process can do more harm than good.
• Women make up the majority of this planet and this church but are denied ministerial equity, in serving and ministers and preaching on the Word.
• No one should be denied the Eucharist; it is gift of God for the people of God.

• FOCUS churches work together to help the poor; there should be more room for collaboration with other churches in our neighborhood
• Post-Vatican II era had impulse of interfaith and ecumenical activity; need to look at what we have in common; be more involved in social justice action, e. g. against war; pull people together; more than a belief system
• Catechism is a list of propositions to follow as rules; better if it was aimed at a way to live as a Christian. Didn’t Jesus say, you’ve made the law your God?

What actions can you take? What actions can be taken by the parish or diocese?

Courageous and persistent communications with and to our bishop and other diocesan/national leaders on issues of concern – perhaps invitations for parish/small group encounters one on one with the bishop can be considered. I acknowledge, however, that any ability to listen to our concerns can only come from developing a trusting relationship where our concerns can be respected and not merely brushed off. Thus, more than one such meeting would be needed in order to build and nurture the ability to communicate respectfully. Not an easy task, given the “busy-ness” of the leadership in the diocese. Hence the need for persistence.